about Williams and the cap...
BUDDON:
a lot of this is hype from a times pic writer, but you can't help but get excited about gregg williams:
BUDDON:
a lot of this is hype from a times pic writer, but you can't help but get excited about gregg williams:
Interestingly,
He said every position will play an important role, but four spots are especially critical to the system: middle linebacker, nickel back and both safety spots. That's why he said he would begin his evaluation process from the back of the defense and move forward, linebackers to linemen.
I'd say we're getting a new safety somewhere along the way.
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
Yea, it sounds like it, and we definitely need one, but who? If we make a FA acquisition, who do we let go? If we draft a young safety, can we really start him from the get-go? And who would we take at 14 now anyway?
I have no idea how this is going to play out
BUDDON:
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
Yea, it sounds like it, and we definitely need one, but who? If we make a FA acquisition, who do we let go? If we draft a young safety, can we really start him from the get-go? And who would we take at 14 now anyway?
I have no idea how this is going to play out
BUDDON:
check out the list of cap figures:
At 2.2M, Patten is almost definitely a goner. And Deuce too probably.
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
You still take a hit when you cut someone though, so even though we are cutting some guys, we are still going to be on the hook for some of that. Plus, we have a lot of backloaded contracts that are going to count more against the cap than they did last year. Even though we have some FA's who likely won't be re-signed, I still don't see how we get any big name guys. Jeff Duncan said it as well - we are not going to make any big acquisitions unless we give some guys up.
DUNCAN:
All of this = Saints F.I.T.B.
BUDDON:
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
You still take a hit when you cut someone though, so even though we are cutting some guys, we are still going to be on the hook for some of that. Plus, we have a lot of backloaded contracts that are going to count more against the cap than they did last year. Even though we have some FA's who likely won't be re-signed, I still don't see how we get any big name guys. Jeff Duncan said it as well - we are not going to make any big acquisitions unless we give some guys up.
DUNCAN:
All of this = Saints F.I.T.B.
BUDDON:
Yeah, that's true. For cap purposes, the signing bonus is pro-rated over the term of the contract. When you cut the guy, you take a hit for any amount of the signing bonus that has not already been accounted for. The fact that a contract is backloaded in subsequent years doesn't hurt you for cap purposes. It just makes the player more appealing to cut, e.g. David Patten.
We're probably not going to get a Nnamdi, Peppers, or Haynesworth-type guy; the Saints just don't do that, even when we do have the cap room. But Atogwe? He's a possiblity.
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
I meant, We have backloaded contracts on guys we are not cutting, which is part of the reason we are in so much trouble.
about the draft (i.e. William Moore, S Mizzou) and Reggie...
BUDDON:
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
I meant, We have backloaded contracts on guys we are not cutting, which is part of the reason we are in so much trouble.
about the draft (i.e. William Moore, S Mizzou) and Reggie...
BUDDON:
about the USC LB's at the Senior Bowl:
here is the scouting report on william moore.
My takeaways:
- ballhawk
- pussy, doesn't hit
- injury prone
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
sounds like Bullocks. THat's exactly what the report on him was
BUDDON:
yep. combine that with his play on an overrated team/conference, and i'm not a big fan.
"while he is fairly reliable as an open-field tackler, he does not play with a mean streak and he lacks power as a hitter. He will get erased too easily when teams run at him and he rarely supports with reckless abandon."
DUNCAN:
yeah this guy is worthless
THE DOWG:
yeah under coach payton we play such a tough brand of football that i can't imagine drafting a guy whose description sounds very much like the guy that sean payton has tried to make centerpiece of our offense the last three years (maybe he will finally figure it out that reggie isn't like the LT of two years ago .....but rather like gil fenerty without the heart)
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
puh-leeze dude
Your hatred for all things Reggie has completely blinded you to what the guy can do. From now on, any time I see the word "Reggie" in something you write, I'm just going to skip that paragraph and assume it says "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa reggie booooooooosh, waaaaaaaaaaa. I thought you were going to be marshall Faulk, LT and Brandon Jacobs all in one. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. why didnt you win us the superbowl reggie? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
THE DOWG:
now that's what i am talking about!!! a little heat into the board....of course, you misinterpreted what the dowg said....i didn't criticize reggie; i criticized his head coach for how he used reggie. i think you'll agree with me, counselor, that reggie's best year was his first when he was used as a complement to a different style running back....or the lightning part of a "thunder and lightning" package...or the "change of pace"....or the "left-jab after the big right hook" or whatever the hell you, fine counselor, would want to say
but now he is somehow expected to be those guys that you mentioned "all in one"...and all saints fans, even ones who sit closely and comfortably to the field in the club section, would readily admit that mr. bush cannot possibly be expected to thunder, lightning, and driving rainfall all in one..it is simply not a part of his makeup and it is counterproductive to what makes him special. after all, who on this fine email list would dare to say that mr. bush has been "special" the past 2 years like he was his first....any takers gentleman?
in fact, dude, if you ask the father of 2 among us, he will tell you that i am in fact a reggie apologist.
VERN:
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
sounds like Bullocks. THat's exactly what the report on him was
BUDDON:
yep. combine that with his play on an overrated team/conference, and i'm not a big fan.
"while he is fairly reliable as an open-field tackler, he does not play with a mean streak and he lacks power as a hitter. He will get erased too easily when teams run at him and he rarely supports with reckless abandon."
DUNCAN:
yeah this guy is worthless
THE DOWG:
yeah under coach payton we play such a tough brand of football that i can't imagine drafting a guy whose description sounds very much like the guy that sean payton has tried to make centerpiece of our offense the last three years (maybe he will finally figure it out that reggie isn't like the LT of two years ago .....but rather like gil fenerty without the heart)
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
puh-leeze dude
Your hatred for all things Reggie has completely blinded you to what the guy can do. From now on, any time I see the word "Reggie" in something you write, I'm just going to skip that paragraph and assume it says "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa reggie booooooooosh, waaaaaaaaaaa. I thought you were going to be marshall Faulk, LT and Brandon Jacobs all in one. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. why didnt you win us the superbowl reggie? waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
THE DOWG:
now that's what i am talking about!!! a little heat into the board....of course, you misinterpreted what the dowg said....i didn't criticize reggie; i criticized his head coach for how he used reggie. i think you'll agree with me, counselor, that reggie's best year was his first when he was used as a complement to a different style running back....or the lightning part of a "thunder and lightning" package...or the "change of pace"....or the "left-jab after the big right hook" or whatever the hell you, fine counselor, would want to say
but now he is somehow expected to be those guys that you mentioned "all in one"...and all saints fans, even ones who sit closely and comfortably to the field in the club section, would readily admit that mr. bush cannot possibly be expected to thunder, lightning, and driving rainfall all in one..it is simply not a part of his makeup and it is counterproductive to what makes him special. after all, who on this fine email list would dare to say that mr. bush has been "special" the past 2 years like he was his first....any takers gentleman?
in fact, dude, if you ask the father of 2 among us, he will tell you that i am in fact a reggie apologist.
VERN:
I got 2 kids??? btw, I'm referring to my son as "Loadhalt" now. I just love the name.
...ask Ducan.
I'm not getting into the Reggie stuff. Been there, done that.
I will, however, refute your collective bashing of William Moore. The dude is a starting safety in the NFL. Bullocks isn't. You guys are making judgement calls on that one page of an "assesment." Have you even seen the dude play? Maybe he will be underwhelming in the NFL... but I saw the guy play in two games this year, didn't know who the hell he was, and each time I said to myself, "wow" ...on several occasions. I hardly think 2 games of watching a college safety play is sufficient reason for a judgement call, but neither is a one-page ESPN scouting report. Let's just wait and see after the combine what people are saying. If he does begin to "rise," I think there is a very good chance that we draft the dude. And if that turns out to be the case, I will be excited about it.
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
I really don't think Payton is asking Reggie to be an all-in-one type of back. BUT, I think Payton has to run him up the middle from time to time to keep defenses honest. And it was starting to work. He had a huge carry right up the gut against Carolina just before getting hurt.
It's easy to bash Payton's play-calling. It's actually fashionable lately. But repeat this to yourself 3 times - We have the best offense in football.
Now, even I will acknowledge that some of those stats are skewed because of games where we threw up points in garbage time like it was going out of style. But, we are easily top 5 in the league, and whether you like it or not, Payton's play calling plays a role in it.
And here is the thing about his play calling - He can't win. Either he runs it on 3rd and 1 and we can't pick it up and everyone throws a fit because he ran the play everyone just knew he would run, or he tries something tricky and everyone gets pissed because he's "overthinking" it, or he gets the ball to Reggie in the flat and everyone gets mad because "we always go to Reggie" and everyone amazingly knew that would happen too.
Newsflash - Sean P is a good coach and a good play caller and the Saints offense will again be dominant next year. The season is in the hands of the Front Office (and whoever they can bring in via free agency and the draft) and Greg Williams.
As for Moore... I have never seen the dude play - all I'm saying is, that was the scouting report on Bullocks. Bullocks was labeled a ball-hawk, not extremely fast, and not a big hitter, a guy who just made plays. Well, we have all see the plays Josh Bullocks makes for the Saints, and they typically involve him making the good ole college try at tackling a wide receiver who beat him deep.
VERN:
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
I really don't think Payton is asking Reggie to be an all-in-one type of back. BUT, I think Payton has to run him up the middle from time to time to keep defenses honest. And it was starting to work. He had a huge carry right up the gut against Carolina just before getting hurt.
It's easy to bash Payton's play-calling. It's actually fashionable lately. But repeat this to yourself 3 times - We have the best offense in football.
Now, even I will acknowledge that some of those stats are skewed because of games where we threw up points in garbage time like it was going out of style. But, we are easily top 5 in the league, and whether you like it or not, Payton's play calling plays a role in it.
And here is the thing about his play calling - He can't win. Either he runs it on 3rd and 1 and we can't pick it up and everyone throws a fit because he ran the play everyone just knew he would run, or he tries something tricky and everyone gets pissed because he's "overthinking" it, or he gets the ball to Reggie in the flat and everyone gets mad because "we always go to Reggie" and everyone amazingly knew that would happen too.
Newsflash - Sean P is a good coach and a good play caller and the Saints offense will again be dominant next year. The season is in the hands of the Front Office (and whoever they can bring in via free agency and the draft) and Greg Williams.
As for Moore... I have never seen the dude play - all I'm saying is, that was the scouting report on Bullocks. Bullocks was labeled a ball-hawk, not extremely fast, and not a big hitter, a guy who just made plays. Well, we have all see the plays Josh Bullocks makes for the Saints, and they typically involve him making the good ole college try at tackling a wide receiver who beat him deep.
VERN:
Please... let's step back for a minute and place things in proper perspective.
Not knowing that Coslton, Nesbit, Goodwin, Bush, Patton, Cambell, Ellis, Thomas, Grant, McKenzie, Porter, and Gay would ALL miss signifigant time injured, a 10-6 record last year would have been a comfortably accurate prediction -- and we went 8-8 (off by 2 games). Not to mention guys like Shockey, Deuce, Bullocks (ok -- yay!), and Smith ALL reportedly played the season with signifigant injuries. That's 16 starters (out of 22!!!) that either missed signifigant time or played hurt. Now, I know all teams suffer injuries and all teams have guys that play hurt; but, none had that many. We all must say that this affected chemistry (both offensively and defensively). We must take this into consideration when proclaiming the "status" of our team and projecting for next season.
Why am I saying all this?
Because I think we are supporting a culture that suggest we have to nail the perfect pick in this draft, or we have to go get upgrades in FA -- supporting it with a certain sense of urgency, because we've missed the playoffs for 2 years in a row, and people are starting to question Payton and Loomis' decisions (both in game decisions and off-season ones). I urge you to step back and look at the big picture. We NEED a lot less than most people think. We already have a championship core. We just need them to stay healthy. Sure, I hope we continue (as Payton and Loomis' past track record suggests) to make good, in some case great, draft decisions. But I don't think 2009 is in the hands of Loomis, or the scouts, or Greg Williams. I think it's in the hands of the players we already got -- they just need to stay healthy... trade their vaginas in for a set of balls, so to speak. Ok, that's somewhat inaccurate -- we really we just need a few good breaks instead of an alarming number of bad ones). If 6-7 people get hurt or play injured in '09, we'll be ok; if 16 do again, we'll be in trouble again, no matter what decisions we make this offseason. There should be a sense of urgency this offseason -- to stay healthy, not win the FA lottery. I trust that our Front Office will continue it's alarming success rate in the draft and FA -- no matter if it's big splashes or small ones.
We may have gone 8-8 last year, but it wasn't because Payton couldn't call a play to pick up one yard on third down; it wasn't because Payton talked Loomis into trading for Shockey; it wasn't because Jason David and Usama Young couldn't cover a nine-route; and it wasn't because Gary Gibbs was a bad D-Coordinator. It was because Deuce didn't return as the same RB he was in '06, and it was because Colston missed half the year, and it was because Shockey played with a sac on his ass, and it was because Porter and McKenzie were not there to do their job, and it was because to many people were injured for Gary Gibbs to effectively do his.
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
I agree with this:
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
I agree with this:
"We may have gone 8-8 last year, but it wasn't because Payton couldn't call a play to pick up one yard on third down; it wasn't because Payton talked Loomis into trading for Shockey; it wasn't because Jason David and Usama Young couldn't cover a nine-route; and it wasn't because Gary Gibbs was a bad D-Coordinator. It was because Deuce didn't return as the same RB he was in '06, and it was because Colston missed half the year, and it was because Shockey played with a sac on his ass, and it was because Porter and McKenzie were not there to do their job, and it was because to many people were injured for Gary Gibbs to effectively do his."
And I also think we just failed to show up to 2 of our most important games - Atlanta (the first time) and Carolina (the first time). Both pathetic showings.
On the other hand, we keep Hester from getting behind us and Smith from catching that prayer Delhomme threw into triple coverage, and we should be 10-6.
So while I agree with everything you said, Scott, I also think sometimes it just boils down to the fact that winning teams win, and losing teams lose. At no point was this more obvious than when the Pats went 11-5 without the best qb in the league.
So maybe we just need a little, or maybe we need an entirely new attitude, culture, scheme, personnel, etc... After seeing what the Cardinals have done this year, I just don't know anymore.
VERN:
On the other hand, we keep Hester from getting behind us and Smith from catching that prayer Delhomme threw into triple coverage, and we should be 10-6.
So while I agree with everything you said, Scott, I also think sometimes it just boils down to the fact that winning teams win, and losing teams lose. At no point was this more obvious than when the Pats went 11-5 without the best qb in the league.
So maybe we just need a little, or maybe we need an entirely new attitude, culture, scheme, personnel, etc... After seeing what the Cardinals have done this year, I just don't know anymore.
VERN:
I think this year's cardinals team is alot like our '06 Saints team. Just a good (not great) regular season (the cardinals were boosted by the fact that they play in the least difficult division in professional sports). Then, both teams got hot at the end. The difference is, that the Cardinals lucked out with having Philly come to their house (playing home in a Dome). Had the giants beat Philly in the Divisional Playoffs, Arizona would have gone to NY and perhaps been derailed with bad weather conditions.
If you remember in 2006, Seattle almost beat Chicago in the Divisional Playoffs. Had that happened we would have hosted Seattle in the Dome. Unfortunately, we had to travel to Chicago and play in conditions hardly catered to efficiency in the passing game.
I think we are the type of team that needs to have homefield advantage in the Playoffs, or at least not have to play in horrible conditions. Arizona got lucky -- the furthest north they had to go was Carolina and the conditions weren't bad in that game (cooler temperatures, but no rain or snow). Now they go to Tampa for the Superbowl -- I doubt that will be an ice bowl :)
I think our "attitude" is good as long as people realize the real reason(s) behind the Saints not meeting expectations. When media, fans, etc. start the ignorant murmurs that we have a bad coach who makes bad decisions, and begin to question a general manager who has had perhaps the best 3 year FA / drafting stretch I can think of, that will inevitably affect the attitude inside the locker room (because the players listen to all of that b.s.). The fact is that if another coach had to deal with the injuries this team had in 2008, a road stretch that kept the team away from the Dome for 48 days, two kickers who single-handedly lost games for us by missing multiple FG's, they would be lucky to sniff an 800 record, especially when you consider that all 3 teams in our division posted an 800 record or better.
I love Payton's coaching this past year because he didn't utter one excuse about anything. He kept plugging in players, coaching others up, and moving forward. He controlled what he could control and didn't make excuses for what he couldn't. I think that's the attitude and culture you want in a head coach, and I think it's present in most of our personell (certainly our QB).
I judge people based on how they handle issues when things are going good, but how they react when things are going bad. If Payton can lead us to a 800 record while dealing with the most unfortunate stretch of occurrences he has had to deal with in his short coaching career, I think he grades out rather well.
I still love the dude, and I still think we will win with him. Moreover, I don't think Loomis was lying (or being naive) when he said that he thinks the team will win a championship with this head coach and QB. It would be foolish to guarantee anything, but I think if we stay healthy, we are not just a good team, but a very good team.
... just saying, vern ;)
BUDDON:
i think atogwe would be nice b/c he's the best player available at the most obvious position of need, and the draft that is relatively weak at that position. but i don't want to dismantle our team to get him. we need to re-sign vilma, stinchcomb, evans, and moore. we don't need patten, devery, or deuce. if we can do all of that and make enough cap room to get atogwe, i'd be thrilled. if not, we need to figure out how to address that position in another way.
i'm not part of this loser's lament. i like our team, our coach, and our qb; and i think we are close. i do think that we will only be close for as long as brees is in his prime, which is probably 3-4 more years. i'm prepared for some dark years after that; but if we can get 1 superbowl, just one, i'd embrace those dark years like big bird embraces tickle me elmo (inside joke -- Section123SaintsFan is referred to as Big Bird... long story).
THE DOWG:
gentleman with all of this talk i know there is certainly one man smiling.....his name is tom benson cuz he knows that the bumper stickers with the fresh company slogans are being put on the cars for next year. for a team that has been horribly disappointing the past two seasons, i would think yall are talking about the patriots here. notice that no matter how you spin it.....we are still holding onto the same nonsense that we have been saying since the ditka years..."we are really really close" so fire away helm and green, but i am tired of watching us beat up on poor teams and lose to anyone floating around .500 and then spinning it to say "we were really close" (check out the teams we beat and the ones we lost to this year....it's kinda telling).
BUDDON:
hey, at least it's not the haslett days when we'd beat the super bowl champion rams and lose to the 1-15 bengals in the same year!
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
Great stat dude, but let me get this straight - we beat more bad teams than good teams, and we lost to more good teams than bad teams? And taking that a step further, if I dare, we were better than bad teams and worse than good teams?
WOW
In other news, the sun came up this morning, taxes are due on April 15, and there is still no cure for cancer.
Now look, I'm not trying to be a dick (it just happens....), but I don't care that we mostly beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to the ones we were supposed to lose to. Every season for every single NFL team that is even close to a contender comes down to a few plays. You just have to put the right guys in the right spots and hope it works out. Every team is always a year away (see: the Dolphins, Falcons, and Cardinals this season). Don't try to crush our hope because we have been close before and not gotten it. We're close again, and the difference this time, is that I believe in this staff and this team, and you wanna know why??
Because We aint talkin Aaron Brooks and Jeff Blake - we talkin Drew Brees.
And that's enough for me.
BUDDON:
i think atogwe would be nice b/c he's the best player available at the most obvious position of need, and the draft that is relatively weak at that position. but i don't want to dismantle our team to get him. we need to re-sign vilma, stinchcomb, evans, and moore. we don't need patten, devery, or deuce. if we can do all of that and make enough cap room to get atogwe, i'd be thrilled. if not, we need to figure out how to address that position in another way.
i'm not part of this loser's lament. i like our team, our coach, and our qb; and i think we are close. i do think that we will only be close for as long as brees is in his prime, which is probably 3-4 more years. i'm prepared for some dark years after that; but if we can get 1 superbowl, just one, i'd embrace those dark years like big bird embraces tickle me elmo (inside joke -- Section123SaintsFan is referred to as Big Bird... long story).
THE DOWG:
gentleman with all of this talk i know there is certainly one man smiling.....his name is tom benson cuz he knows that the bumper stickers with the fresh company slogans are being put on the cars for next year. for a team that has been horribly disappointing the past two seasons, i would think yall are talking about the patriots here. notice that no matter how you spin it.....we are still holding onto the same nonsense that we have been saying since the ditka years..."we are really really close"
and i know it's different, and payton is better, and gibbs sucked, and injuries and blah blah blah...but the bottom line is that we could have had these very same conversations when blondie was our coach....and possibly the only reason we now spend a little more and hire better coordinators and are threfore a prettier football team is because ole TB aint gettin any younger, and he probably sees his Super Bowl dreams fading into the sunset and has a sense if urgency in his life (and BTW..there was one more team who put more guys on IR than us this year, and they are the 11-5 New England Patriots.....and I believe one of those guys was not just a rookie, or a mild contributor, or a guy whose name sounds really good when you cite it.....he was kind of important to them)
BUDDON:
hey, at least it's not the haslett days when we'd beat the super bowl champion rams and lose to the 1-15 bengals in the same year!
SECTION123SAINTSFAN:
Great stat dude, but let me get this straight - we beat more bad teams than good teams, and we lost to more good teams than bad teams? And taking that a step further, if I dare, we were better than bad teams and worse than good teams?
WOW
In other news, the sun came up this morning, taxes are due on April 15, and there is still no cure for cancer.
Now look, I'm not trying to be a dick (it just happens....), but I don't care that we mostly beat the teams we were supposed to beat and lost to the ones we were supposed to lose to. Every season for every single NFL team that is even close to a contender comes down to a few plays. You just have to put the right guys in the right spots and hope it works out. Every team is always a year away (see: the Dolphins, Falcons, and Cardinals this season). Don't try to crush our hope because we have been close before and not gotten it. We're close again, and the difference this time, is that I believe in this staff and this team, and you wanna know why??
Because We aint talkin Aaron Brooks and Jeff Blake - we talkin Drew Brees.
And that's enough for me.
